Is the third world ever going to improve if current economic policies are continued? With IMF and WTO corruption, it seems to me we're well on our way to corporate politics where all that is left are the wealthy and the impoverished masses who can offer their unprotected cheap labor to drive the sweatshops that give us our $10 sweatshirts. Until we get some global justice, we're not going to see things get any better.

Dont forget the World Bank! I'd say we're going to see some MASSIVE changes in the next ten years. Global oil production is slated to peak by 2020 (optimistically), so that will bring some very interesting changes. Water is gearing up to become the new commodity that controls the global economy and distribution of power. The only thing, is whether this will cause a change in the system of the ruling elite, because they obviously are well-aware of this impending reduction of oil production.

by personal opinion i believe that north america, (specifically the US and Canada, maybe Mexico in the future) is truly a land of oportunity. if the future of the world does fall into the hands of the wealthy classes then it will be the fault of the lower. by this i mean that anyone who wants to succeed will. and anyone who wants to run that large corporation that controls everything can. i understand that if my statement is read wrong it can be contradictory, so please take the time to understand before you argue.

Ok so back to the subject line... What of the 3rd world countries? Will they forever be destined to poverty as "inferior" human beings? And the world is already in the hands of the wealthy classes, it has been for a long time. I'm hardly able to believe that "anyone who wants to run that large corporation that controls everything can". If the "large corporation controls everything" isnt everyone going to want to be the one that controls it? If its so large it controls everything how could "anyone who wants to" control it? Thats pretty much rediculous. By the way I appreciate your rational input from the right wing of the spectrum, so keep it up man I enjoy discussing this sht with you. Peace

"If its so large it controls everything how could "anyone who wants to" control it"... sthis is the beauty of the monpolies in north america. with free / cheap education and lack of a controling "underground market" its possibl for virtually anyone to go to college and start their own corporation. as long as they have the necessary drive, ambition, and some legitamate, good ideas. thanks for the como. i 'm diggin learning more about your left wing ideas.

I agree that we do live in a land of opportunity. If you put yourself to it then YOU WILL make it! I know thats where I'm headed, I'm going to university for my bachelors degree in business, totally unassisted by family or anyone except a student loan. So I totally agree with you there, and I think that everyone should try hard to make it for themselves. I fully support "the american dream", which goes for most western nations too. What bothers me is the discrepancy between the rich and poor classes. 1% of the population of the USA holds 80% of the wealth in the WORLD! Out of the 100 largest economies in the world more than HALF of them are corporations (multinational US corps generally)!! So while I believe that anyone can make it and become fairly rich, I DON'T believe that anyone can make it into the ruling class that controls the worlds economys. I just want more fairness and equality in the world, even if it means giving up some of what I have, which compared to many in the western world, really isnt much.

I personally think that the world works in a circle. For example, before 1632 the Holy Roman Empire ruled most of Europe, then in 1632 the Treaty of Westphalia stopped the 30 year war and it was the birth of the modern sovreign state, with holland and a few germanic and austro states breaking away and declaring themselves thier own rule. And then once again Russia comes along and tries to make everyone part of thier country... then they break away either from lack of thier own cultures representation or distance from the ruling center. Once communist russia broke apart and the Wasaw pact disentagrated, countries really started looking towards the ever growing economic power of the european trade organization, which is now the EU. All these IGO's, esspecially the EU and the UN cannot stay together forever, at first it is great and wonderful for the few member states. Now that many eastern european countries are joining the original backbone states like Germany and France are suffering because the citizens of these less developed countries can legally move into germany and france and take jobs. Where the buisinesses will then move to Turkey (almost a member) or Poland because it is much cheaper to work there. What im trying to say is that the EU and the UN will eventually break up, and if it results in war then i think that once again there will be economic depression world wide and communism might take hold again in many countries. Even though its a pretty far fetched statement i think that if this happens the 2nd and 3rd world countries may finally be able to compete with the former 1st world countries. [Edited on 12/19/2005]

Interesting view points Javla, I have to agree with the cyclic tendencies of the world. However, I look at the history of Empires. Basically, all empires eventually fail, leading to a new revolution of powerful countries/peoples. Honestly, I think the strength that the EU is getting is well deserved and a long time coming, however, I think the first to fail may very well be the US (and I am American), the Americans are the only people in the world that do not have enough physical goods (gold, silver, platnum, etc) to back up the amount of money in circulation. Furthermore, we are owed so much money from other countries that if we collected, we would bankrupt the other countries, making our collections in vain, and God only knows that the hate and resentment of the US is growing worldwide.

for the third world countries to develop and catch up would require one momentous thing in my mind, the world becoming one nation and all the countries essentially becoming states. There are just too many greedy people out there that look for loopholes to manipulate for their own good. if it was all one country I think that would fix alot of problems while admittedly creating hundreds more. as for corporations and the land of oppurtunity and all that jazz. I hate to be a cynic but from my perspective corporations for the most part are slowly turning into an aristocracy. huge businesses are passed to the childeren or a friend not to whom is most apt to control it oftimes. honestly is there a single person here who works for a business or corporation (over say 5 people) who can honestly say they don't have either someone above them who they feel isn't qualified or is just a complete moron. or have people working for them, and have a friend in a place of power over someone that is possibly more qualified? also corporations put waaaay too much credit into a college degree. while I do think an education is extremely important. experience often is more important. what about that guy who has been working for the company for 25 years knows the ins and outs of it better than anyone, but he didn't get a college degree so he's maxed out in a company he could probably run better just because he couldn't afford college, or was too busy helping the business succeed. Sorry but thats just one of my beefs I know of too many people with college degrees that are idiots in my mind (The US president maybe?) a degree doesn't make you smart, a will to learn and knowledge does. as for the falling of the US due to collections, I sincerely mean this when I say I am not a follower of any party, I think both are extremely screwed up I think one should vote off of a candidates merits not off of who he aligns with (it all switched after the civil war anyways) but during Clintons presidency (before the most spendy gov't in the history of the US, which is in the words of Dubya is "ironical" since he said he was going to cut the defecit) anyways during clintons presidency I heard that if all the taxes from the US citizens that didn't go to extremely necessary things i.e. education, social security, and a minimal armed forces amount, the national debt could've been paid off in three years of course all the lazy bastards scamming the gov't for money and food stamps (I know there are legitimate cases but I doubt they are even in the majority) would have to get a job!

i agree with the trends of cyclic tendencies. however, that was in a time of conqouring nations. the quest for empires is over, in a sense. i don't think that those cycles will continue in the way that have in the past. the countries that are powerful now, will be for a long long time. just there is more pressure to keep a good economy due to pressure from lower classes with in that country having a say in national gov't. not to say that today powerhouses won't fall from 1 to 5, but lower countries won't take over. its just the way it is.... sad but true... The only exeptions to this rule would be nations in the position that China was in. And in my opinion that was a one time thing...

Empires rise and fall depending on their ability to consume energy. Midevil Europe was so powerful because they logged the continent, the british empire thrived because of the massive coal stocks in england and the recent technology to tap into that energy. The energy source of the 20th century has been fossil fuels, and one of the major reasons the US rose to power is because america USED to be one of the most oil-rich countries in the world. They were the first to tap into this resource in large amounts, and as a result rose to be the most powerful nation on earth. Oil production in the USA peaked (maximum output) in the 1970's because of this, but by this time the US was rich and powerful enough to bring in oil from other parts of the world. By the most optimistic of estimations, global oil-production will peak by 2020, and at this time, the world is going to have to start to seriosuly turn to different sources of energy. So we have a major change in energy sources, and changes in energy sources have often been affiliated with changes in empires. We have some very interesting times ahead of us.

the US is also one of the most scientifically advances countries in the world... maybe not the most advanced, but one of the most. this means that there is serious potential for the next source of energy to come from here. the question is, what is it? medival times weren't very proseperous, granted they had some small advances, but nothing in comparison to times past and future... incredibly shocked to here otherwise from someone as liberal as yourself koot

lol ok my bad. I'm still stickin by my thing about them using lotsa energy though... they just wasted it on war instead of technological advances... fuck I'm hungover today I can barely even think... The US is probably the most scientifically advanced country, but the thing is, the technologty for renewable energy is old news...been around for years... I think its probably going to be whoever makes the smoothest transfer from fossil fuels to whatever is next...hydrogen?

I'm guessing biofuels i.e. Ethanol. completely renewable also easily made. 99% of the cars out there now can already run off of it. its all whether gas stations will sell it or not. also it burns much cleaner. the major downside is that if you have a major dustbowl or something so that the fields go fallow then your hosed. but if the whole world hits that then your screwed anyways right?

i hope to god the 3rd world nations never catch up to the first world nations. this is simply because 20% of the worlds population is using 80% of the worlds resources... that means that if the other 80% of the world were to use resources at the same amount of resources as we do then quite literally all the resources would be used up within 20-100 years. for 3rd world nations to start functioning the same way we do, we first need to adjust our resource consumption as well as develop technologies that are more resource efficient. until we can manage that i hope that no progress is made in 3rd world nations for the sake of the planet. cynical? perhaps. realistic? definatly.

ok, to get to the topic that has evolved i have a few thoughts about the things already discussed. firstly, the US has given alot of money to other countries so there is some countries owing the US money, but the US is also indebted to alot of other countries (hence the large deficiet) such as china. and to tap into koots theory of the next big resource being water, if that is to be the case then Canada will become the next world power considering we have around 70% of the worlds fresh water. but then u have u think about how that will be dealt with considering trade with the US. will water be included into the free trade agreement, which would keep the US as a super power and slightly handi capping canadas ability to accel at least past the US? that will be interesting... but its likely that at that time there will be alot of changes between canada and the US, with BC Alberta Sask. separation rallys being more common and less apposed, not to mention to US's intress in assimilating canada into its own country (not exactly a hard stated fact but certainly one that has dwelled around canada and the us since that little 54-40 thing that happend way back when. about the one big nation thing with all the countries becoming states. that might work, but i would think that soo many states would be hard to controle by one person and they would essentially become self governing states which is no diffrent then having all separate countrys. perhaps if the countrys were converted to states, under one nation, and then have alot of boarders desolved to form larger more managable areas that would work, but then u get all the problems with people fighting for their heritage and atonomy. but non the less an interesting theory. i think that the US needs to concentrate more money on important sciences and technology, i constantly hear about scientific grants for rediculous things like squeekless rubber and sum such nonsence, and these grants are like a million dollars for only a short term and are usually renewed. the US has soo many people and even tho they have one of the highest illiteracy rates of all 1st world nations, they also have the some of the worlds most capable and brilliant people (the curse of huge population). ok im not sure where im going with this but AIDS research, Cancer research, Energy research good, squeekless rubber bad. i think it would be cool for Hydrogen to make its way into a major energy source roll in the world. i could see that leading to alot of other very good technologys. plus all u need to so is take water add some electricity and u get hydrogen and oxygen. and im not 100% sure but im thinking that once its burned it will some how bond with oxygen again condence and fall back down to earth (not a chem guy but seems possible to me). anyway cool post guys, i hope someone has some critisism or input on some of my info here. its always good to be proven wrong, as long as u can remember the right answer lol. cheers

I feel the reason that problems in the third world are perpetuated are due to a few distinct factors. They all revolve around capitalism without a conscience. First, "fair trade" that pits US and Euro goods (often agricultural) that are subsidized against unsubsidized Third World products. US and Euro get a market, third world loses an industry and even more jobless peasants crowd urban slums looking for jobs to replace agricultural losses. Second, US foreign policy of standing behind the World Bank, IMF, and WTO that makes unfair trade practices, subsidization, nondemocratic reforms, and unfair loans to corrupt regimes daily practice. For example, the IMF utilized Harvard economist Jeffrey Sachs to rework Bolivia's economic system. Corporations moved in with the changes, and industries thrived. However, the gain was purely in GDP. Bolivia produced for America and the rest of the world. However, 80% of the population, nearly all indigenous, are still in desperate poverty despite the industry gains. Education has collapsed. And the white minority, those with education, have the jobs this change has brought and are the only ones to capture the system's benefits. The poor remain in a cycle of poverty that feeds the machine. Third, no one in Washington cares. With corporate interests lining the pocketbooks of campaigns, no politician can afford to go against corporate policy. Who would put their head on the chopping block to suggest a change to business practice that would harm corporate overhead? Dear God, doing the right thing might have an effect on politician's standing, and that would be unacceptable. *rollseyes* Wow I love politics. In any case, things aren't looking any better for the 50% of the world who live on less than an equivalent $1 US dollar in their economy. Could you live on a dollar a day? Probably not too well. But I suppose we can forget about the 3 billion who somehow manage to without drawing too much attention from the media. Or America. Or Washington, whose politicians claim to care so much for the disenfranchised. Yeah, it'll take a lot to fix things in the world. It's got to start with our generation.